SPEAKER change versus CAB change? | Page 2 | The Canadian Guitar Forum

SPEAKER change versus CAB change?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by greco, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. jb welder

    jb welder

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Melonville, Canada
    I agree that the difference between open and closed back will be huge, but
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the variations between different speakers in the same cab can be huge, it can change the sound of an amp in a major way.
    What do you mean 'if done properly' ?
     
  2. laristotle

    laristotle Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Location:
    acton
    $80 vs $300 speaker maybe?
     
    Budda likes this.
  3. greco

    greco Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    I hope not, as I was clearly trying to eliminate this factor/variable in my initial post.
     
  4. greco

    greco Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    That has always been my understanding and, rightfully or mistakenly, my belief (admittedly, with somewhat limited actual experience).
     
  5. jb welder

    jb welder

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Melonville, Canada
    You are not mistaken, if they are speakers that are fairly different. Sensitivity ratings can vary by as much as 6db or more, whereas doubling the power of your amp only gains you 3db. Frequency response graphs also vary greatly which will have a major effect on the tonal character.
    People spend a lot of time and money chasing subtle differences with tube brands, capacitor types, etc. It is always said that changing speakers is the biggest difference you can make (for any given amp), and that statement is always evident in comparison testing.
    But always best to let your own ears be the judge, looking forward to hearing about the results of your tests.
     
    Todd MacCulloch likes this.
  6. GTmaker

    GTmaker Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Location:
    Guelph, Ontario
    This is the part that I would have to disagree. The idea that different speakers in the same cab make a huge difference.
    My whole point, in my opinion, is that this speaker difference is not nearly as much as you can hear between the same speaker in different types of cabinets.

    I base my opinion with these observations...
    I know personally what the difference it makes to a speaker placed in a closed back, open back, combo amp,
    and above all my newly aquired Traynor Dark Horse cabinet which makes any speaker I have put in there sound so much better then it did in any other cabinet ( and this difference isn't close)

    I have also seen plenty of youtube videos of speaker shootouts in the same cabinet. There are hundreds of such examples on you tube.
    In most cases, the difference is so close it is almost impossible to tell which speaker is being used if you close your eyes.
    HAve I covered every speaker combination possible....not even close...

    All I can speak to is my personal observations and can totally understand
    that others have different experiences and come up with different conclusions.
    G.
     
  7. Granny Gremlin

    Granny Gremlin Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    Location:
    Toronto - Riverside
    Sure, but not necessarily. EV vs JBL - same price range (expensive) but very different. Same for Jensen vs Celestion on the lower end.
     
  8. notjoeaverage

    notjoeaverage

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Location:
    Camlachie, ON
    Friday I installed a new Celestion Blue in a 2x12 with a Greenback G12M20 the Blue replaced a Celestion G12H30.

    The difference was amazing.

    I have 3 2x12 cabs 2 Greenback G12M20s from 1976, 2 G12H30s from 1978, 2 Vintage 30s from 1991 and a Gold that's from early 2000s.
    I always mix my speakers in a 2x12, 1 is a vertical closed back, 1 regular closed back and 1 a converted closed back with bass ports and now 1/4 open.
    I use 5 different heads 2watt Vox Night Train, 6watt VHT Special Ultra, 15watt Egnater Tweaker, 15watt Laney Cub and a 20watt Peavey Classic Micro Head.

    From my decades of speaker and cab swaps I have heard a somewhat noticeable difference for most changes. I have not paired the Gold yet with anything it sits in a convertible 1x12. The last year plus I have been using two amps setup wet/dry. I will never go back to just an amp. Using 2 amps and 3 to 4 different speakers at once gives you a fuller wider range of sound at a lesser volume even.

    I was blown away by what the Blue added to the mix, it's hard to describe how it sounds, but I knew I was smiling while I was playing, I rarely smile at all, it was just "the sound of rock n roll". Almost everything I've played this weekend sounded so much closer to what I remember hearing on the original recording. It was the sound we've been looking for since we first turned on an amp. I feel like an idiot for not doing this years ago.

    I think a lot of the speaker change has to do with making sure it will work with the amp, matching within a range the amps wattage to the cabs wattage and making sure the "load" or volume you play at gets the best out of the speakers.
     
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  9. GTmaker

    GTmaker Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Location:
    Guelph, Ontario
    I usually cant tell the difference between speakers at all and you can place 2 different speakers in the same cabinet and are able to distinguish the tone of one speaker compared to the other while they are both working at the same time.!!!!
    I find this particular talent amazing.

    G.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 11:51 PM
  10. notjoeaverage

    notjoeaverage

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Location:
    Camlachie, ON
    I noticed some difference from one 2x12 to another with the 3 sets of speakers I've used. I never noticed much difference when changing pots, caps or wiring. When I put the Blue in with the Greenback there is a substantial and very noticeable difference and since I only changed one of the two speakers common sense would clearly indicate which speaker is responsible.

    The SPL for the Blue is 100 and the Greenback is 96 so the Blue is considerably louder than the Greenback you normally don't want a difference greater than 3db.

    A few years ago Musicians Friend had a regular combo/package deal for a Blue and Greenback. They work well together and well with 15-30 watt amps.
     
  11. Roryfan

    Roryfan Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Location:
    Burling-Tone ON
    Late to the party here, but I’ve done a lot of experimentation with speakers over the last few years & a different speaker in the same cab (or combo amp) can make a huge difference. IME matching the right speaker to the right amp &/or cabinet is important (I almost DIDN’T buy a Matchless because I hadn’t paired it up properly).

    +1 on mixing speakers in a 212, certain pairs work really well together & fill in the “gaps” from each other (sorry, I’m not very proficient with the technical terms, just trusting my ears).

    @notjoeaverage instead of the Greenback try the G12H30 with the Blue
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019 at 11:08 PM

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