Marshall 5010 4010 transition. | The Canadian Guitar Forum

Marshall 5010 4010 transition.

Discussion in 'Amp Building/Technical/Repair' started by SG-Rocker, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
    Mount Polemic
    I recently picked up a non-functioning 1984 Marshall 5010 Master Lead Combo for a steal of a deal, with the intent to convert it to a 4010.
    Turns out that a previously replaced electrolytic cap was poorly soldered and was the source of the problem. So now the amp works and actually does a pretty decent 2203/2204 kind of sound, albeit through a less than great G12M-70 4 ohm speaker.

    However, upon closer inspection it's apparent that this amp is a bit of an anomaly in that the schematic and the actual circuit are drastically different. I went through every cap in the amp and not a single one aligns with the schematic.

    Has anyone ever run into this on older Marshall amps?
    Does anyone have older 5010 schematics? The one available online is dated 1988/1990.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  2. jb welder

    jb welder

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Melonville, Canada
    Can you post some gut shots?
     
  3. jb welder

    jb welder

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
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    Oh, I forgot. There is an early version of the 5010 that has a fairly different circuit that there is no schematic for. It is sometimes referred to as the 'red speaker' version or something like that.
    I was trying to work up a schematic for someone a couple years ago from some pics. Just would take too much time tbh.
    Good that you got it running without schem. Don't try changing it over to the other schematic, it's too different.
    If you can read and draw schems, and wan't to try to draw one up, drop me a PM and I can direct you to some of the stuff I was working from.
     
  4. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
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    Its pretty obvious the huge axial electrolytic cap isn't original. The only issue with the amp was a cold solder on one of its legs.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  5. jb welder

    jb welder

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Melonville, Canada
    Ok, your version is yet another variant and not the one I was trying to draw up.
    Yours looks very much like the 5503, but that was a bass combo so there may be some component value changes. You should be able to work off this schematic and alter the values as required, although the designation labeling on the board is not a match:
    https://drtube.com/schematics/marshall/5503.gif
     
  6. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

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    Dec 30, 2007
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    So the transformer is cooked.

    Looks like it's time for for a 4010 build thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  7. jb welder

    jb welder

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Melonville, Canada
    It was working then the power transformer fried?
     
  8. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
    Mount Polemic
    What have I done?!?

    20191110_184853.jpg

    20191109_203012.jpg
    I think a Creamback Neo will really sing in this thing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    greco and jb welder like this.
  9. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
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    I'm also looking for an old 1933 cab to match.

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  10. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
    Mount Polemic
    This amp will essentially be a clone (circuit wise) of it's older brother, an '83 2204 CSA.

    20191111_133404.jpg

    I'm using Hammond transformers and choke and the highest tolerance resistors and caps (F&T for filtering, CDE Orange Drop for decoupling, CDE Silver Mica Caps in place of ceramic disc and Sprague Atom electrolytics) I can find within reason.
    I'll be using Cliff jacks, Bournes pots and have already sourced Marshall impedance and mains selectors.
    Speaker will either be the period-correct G12-65 or a Neo Creamback (4 lb savings).
    I have a set of faceplates en route which I'll use to locate the rear chassis openings and front standby switch:

    Faceplates.png

    If this all goes well, I may try to convert 5210 to a 4210.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  11. reckless toboggan

    reckless toboggan

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    CA
    *drool

    Can't wait to hear it!
     
  12. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
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    Mouser parcel came in...
    [​IMG]

    Orange Drop 225P and 216s and 1% Silver Mica caps in place of the ceramic discs.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
    jb welder likes this.
  13. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Faceplates showed up from Mojotone.

    Lessons learned - the chassis of the 5010 is punched different that the 4010. The 4010 has .25" more spacing between potentiometers, meaning that a 4010 faceplate will not line up on a 5010. Good news is that the IEC jack is in the same place and provides the locations of the speaker jacks, impedance and mains selectors as well as the fuse holders.

    20191123_201227.jpg

    Chassis wiring complete....

    20191124_151618.jpg

    I might send the original faceplate to Mojotone and have a 4010 scaled to fit.
    Any cool ideas that the line out jack can be repurposed for ?

    20191124_151636.jpg

    So how does it sound.... I dunno. While bending pins 1 and 8 together on the socket for V4 I broke one off. Not that it matters, I'm short 1 100K resistor for V2.

    I'll be ordering a new octal socket and resistor tomorrow. Tonight I decide the speaker, it'll be either a G12-65 of a Neo Creamback. Either way, more money to the good folks at NextGenGuitars.
     
  14. alvis

    alvis

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Location:
    Lower Mississippi River
    @SG Rocker
    Great work ! Ive often considered converting a 2199 to a non master style preamp with a 6v6 output ...BUT in the interest of Marshall history,I refrain.
    I have two 4010's and two 5010's . In fact, I did a gig with a 5010 over the weekend. The soundman wanted to know what kind of "tubes" were in it ........

    It's actually the search for info / opinions on the 5503 that brought me here .
    I picked on up recently for 100 bucks....Clearly worth the price if just for the parts.
    The amp itself seems to be devoid of ANY Marshall crunch ,ala 5010. It's just clean n crispy
    Anyone have any playing experience with the 5503 ?
     
  15. SG-Rocker

    SG-Rocker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Location:
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    I would leave that 2199 as is, as for the 5503 - I had to look it up as I never heard of it.
    Angus and Malcolm used the 2199 backstage as warmup / tuning rigs as seen on the opening sequence of Let There Be Rock - The Movie.

    I'm working with Mojotone to create a set of conversion plates for converting 5010s to 4010s.
    I took a gamble that Marshall punched the control panels the same and ordered a set of 4010 faceplates only to find that only the IEC connector and power switch lined up.
    This means the rear plate can be used as a template for locating the remaining holes but the front plate is just different enough to be unusable. I'm sending the original faceplate in to Mojotone to have the 4010 layout rescaled to the 5010 control spacing.

    I have since loaded a Neo Creamback into combo and had Mr. Bell fabricate me a matching 112 extension cab that is currently loaded with a Heritage G12-65. It sounds absolutely amazing - the extension cab provides the familiar sealed cab thump. When stacked, it is very responsive to where it's placed in the room and seems to work best when at least 18" away from a wall.

    What was supposed to be a fun project has resulted in becoming my new #1 and with an MXR Sugar Drive and Reverb out front has effectively retired my JVM410H.
    This amp mixes great with a Mini Jubilee in a stereo setup through an MXR Analog Chorus.
     

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