Discussion in 'Effects Pedals, Strings and more' started by dino, Nov 17, 2010.
"More or less" what?
I'm guessing either mids or gain.
Dino, the seller should really be the one to explain the mods to you. If they are mods he's come up with himself, no one else can help you. If it's a popular mod that he's done, he can provide you with a link to the mod on the net, or at least the name of the person who designed it.
The seller told me the more or less mod is quite well known by people who have had their tube screamers modded. He explained it as it has less squeal or treble so a bit more bass and it has more gain .....
I've always heard of the More and Less mod referring to the Gain sweep: More drive than stock on one end of the dial and cleaner than stock on the other.
Ahhhh, okay now I get it. That's a very simple thing to achieve if you have described it accurately.
In the stock TS7/9/808, the 500k gain pot is in series with a 51k fixed resistor. A stock TS will have a minimum gain of 11.9x, and a maximum gain of 118.2x. If you replace the 51k fixed resistor (green-brown-orange) with a 39k (orange-white-orange) and a 1 meg pot, the gain will now range from 9.3x to 222.1x. Note that, unless you change the 51pf cap as well, at maximum gain the treble rolloff will be greater; moving from 5.6khz down to 3khz. That in itself is not a problem, but you will need to adapt your tone setting as a result. Perhaps best to replace the 51pf cap with a 33pf or 27pf cap.
That change does nothing to the bottom end, though. Increasing the bottom end requires making the value of the .047uf cap larger/higher. Stock, they roll off the bass starting around 720hz. That's high up, but keep in mind it is a shallow rolloff. The purpose of the rolloff is to compensate for the fact that the guitar signal is generally much higher amplitude lower down in the spectrum, and will result in more clipping for bass notes than for upper ones as a result. The "smoother" clipping of the TS results from achieving a similar degree of clipping for all notes across the fretboard, albeit at a cost of bottom end.
The vast majority of TS-derived pedals that aim for greater bass use a larger cap value than .047uf. There are two ways you can do this. One is to provide two gain-setting paths - stock, and a separate one for lower-end - or to change the existing gain setting path. If you replace the .047uf cap with a .22uf component, that drops your rolloff point down to 154hz. That gives you your low end but keep in mind that the differential gain applied across the fretboard will be eiminated and at higher gain settings it will stop sounding TS-like. If you leave the 4k7/.047uf network in place, and simply tack on a 10k/.1uf network in parallel, you end up with a lesser amount of gain applied to the bottom end at all gain settings. If you plot out the function, its like the difference between a hill the slopes and just keep going at an angle, and one that descends at an angle, but flattens out 2/3 of the way along. Not sure if that's clear.
You can see the location of that .047uf and 51pf cap here:
Whats he asking for the pedal , and who did the mod work ??
Rereading the thread made me realize that I may have misinterpreted things.
Unfortunately, that stems from the widespread misuse of the term "gain". When I think "gain", I think how much the amplitude of the incoming signal is increased. Because that is loosely associated with the likelihood of clipping, a lot of less-informed musicians take "gain" to be equivalent to distortion, even though you can get distortion with very modest amounts of gain, or high gain with little clipping, if you play your cards right (e.g., many ultra-clean voice mic preamps apply more gain than is found in a lot of distortions).
So, the less-and-more mod may well involve simply replacing the 500k pot with 1 meg and sticking 4 clipping diodes in to replace the 2 currently in there. This will have the effect of raising the clipping threshold, such that you can still get reasonable boost before clipping sets in. By use of a 1 meg gain pot in this configuration, though, the increased gain available will be sufficient to exceed the clipping threshold of those 4 diodes, yielding more distortin than a stock TS. You might realize that a stock Boss SD-1 utilizes 3 clipping diodes, rather than 2, and a 1 meg gain pot. Some folks prefer the SD-1 to the TS.
My guitar player has a jtm45 and it responds incredibly well to Keeley Modified TS9. Anytime someone borrows his setup they are blown away at how organic they work with each other.
He eq's his amp fairly dark, and the ts9 reacts quite well .. however, his clean sound isn't that great when he rolls off the volume. He never plays clean, so - problem solved!
But I often have to go back and forth, and I find the OD808 is better suited to this. It's got some great crunch, but is a bit "fuzzier" when compared to the ts9 as "edgier". I would say the od808 sounds more 'vintage' with the ts9 sounding more 'modern', but the differences are fairly subtle.
I just like how the od808 responds to low volume as well. I find it adds a nice warmth to my clean playing so much that I just keep it on all the time
What I find funny about your post is that the only difference between a TS9 and an OD808 is the input and output buffers, which are not intended to colour the sound in any way. Personally, I think many of the comparisons people make tend to be between one copy of this pedal and one copy of that one, rather than between multiple copies of pedal X and multiple copies of pedal Y. I'm not making fun of anyone or dissing them. Rather, it's a matter of having a realistic appreciation of the role component tolerances play, the tricks ears play, and the difference between an example of something and the constant features of all instances of that thing. Few of us ever get to sit down with 10 copies of of a given pedal and A/B them with 10 copies of another one. And let's face it, if you were from some obscure province in China and had never been outside your village, comparing Pamela Anderson and Louie Anderson would not give you the most accurate reflection of what typical male-female differences were in non-Asians.
I am copying the previous owner of the TS9's pedal response to the question I asked about the 898 mod and the more/less mod.
The more/less mod is pretty self-explanatory... It widens the range of the drive pot. If you research it on the web you will find some info... Here's what Robert Keeley says about it:
"It allows you to have less distortion in the lower settings of the Drive control and more distortion and saturation in the higher setting of the control. All of the stock TS9 settings are possible throughout the midrange of the control. Plus, none of the singing sweet midrange tone is gone! CLEANER when turned down and TWICE THE GAIN AND DRIVE when turned up with all of the stock TS808 sounds in the middle. Beautiful vocal sweet woman tone in the mid-section!
Okay, then it IS only a change in the value of the pot and fixed resistor in series with it. After looking at a number of other pedal designs, there is an excellent (95% or better) chance that the resistor is change from 51k to 33k and the pot changes from 500k to 1meg. That will do absolutely everything Bob Keeley describes.
Separate names with a comma.