Combo of major and minor pentatonic. | Page 3 | The Canadian Guitar Forum

Combo of major and minor pentatonic.

Discussion in 'Theory and Technique' started by Lola, May 18, 2020.

  1. Kerry Brown

    Kerry Brown Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Location:
    Squamish, BC
    Yes the dominant 7 is the flat seventh added to a major chord. Major seventh isn't used much in blues but sometimes it can make things jazzy. Listen to Stormy Monday by the Allman brothers. They play a Gmaj7 before they do the minor walkup. Diminished sevens are neat chords. Any note in the chord can be the root. They add a lot of tension. It can sound cool to play a dim7 one step below the chord you are leading into. For instance if you are playing in the key of C going from C7 to F7 On the last beat or two of the bar before the F7 play an Edim7 (E is one step or one fret below F). You can also play one step up from the chord you just played.

    e.g. | C7 C7 Edim7 Edim7 | F7 F7 F7 F7 | or | C7 C7 C7 C7 | C#dim7 C#dim7 Edim7 Edim7 | F7 F7 F7 F7 |

    Then you get into sixth and ninth chords. The blues is all about adding tension and releasing it. It can get crazy trying to figure out all this. I mostly just stick to seventh chords trying to weave into the space between the bass and drums. In a blues jam there is always room for a good rhythm player or even two. Lead players don't get to play a lot because everyone wants to play lead. Many lead players don't practice rhythm so when they are not playing lead they don't know what to do. I spend more time practicing rhythm to jam tracks than lead.
     
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  2. Lola

    Lola

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    pickering ontario
    I will delve into this today. A lot of thinking on my part. This week has been a shit show with my migraines.

    I am sure I will have more questions so I can put the puzzle pieces together.

    Last night I was able to play and I just played all the stuff I wanted to and practiced some new material.

    but.....this is my first priority and I will be practicing this today and doing more research into this.
     
    Kerry Brown and player99 like this.
  3. Lola

    Lola

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    pickering ontario
    Kerry you have been instrumental in helping me to expand my horizons as well as Player 99. Thx both of you!

    I shall return.
     
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  4. Paul M

    Paul M

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Location:
    Brantford
    In simple terms, (and there are exceptions), the 3rd gives you the quality of the chord, major/minor. The 7th in conjunction with the third gives you the stability of the chord. A G7 chord is the dominant, (V chord), in the key of C. The 3rd and 7th, B and F, form a tri-tone, which is unstable. The chord wants to resolve. The B up to a C, and the F to an E. That's the Root and 3rd of a C chord. The B and F can also resolve to Bb and Gb, the root and third of a Gb chord.

    Try playing a G7 to C6. It sounds like it finishes...it resolves.

    Now play a Db7 to C6. It resolves just as nicely. That's because G7 and Db7 share the same tritone.

    When I arrange horn parts, I work with the 3rd and 7th first, and fill it out as needed with othe chord tones. I usually leave out the root notes in horn parts. Those notes get played by the piano and bass player.

    When I played in jazz groups, most of my guitar comping was 2 or three note voicings, most of the time using the 3rd, the 7th, and one other note that works in the context of the rest of the arrangement. With 17 musicians in a full big band, there is no need for 6 string power chords.
     
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  5. Lola

    Lola

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    pickering ontario
    Last night was the best night of this Pandemic. I played from 5:30 until 12:20am. I had to stop the fingers were getting a bit raw. Anyhow I managed to incorporate the major and minor together just using the 3 rds. I tried doing this all over the neck in the key of E and A and it sounded pretty good. I just sat there and used the knowledge that Kerry imparted on me yesterday. I think my mind made it into a bigger deal then was necessary. Today I am investigating the 7th chords. I have to do this in small chunks or I know I will get overwhelmed.

    I practiced the above for about 45 minutes then I just had to play David Wilcox, Hypnotizing Boogie, Laying Pipe and from there it was a free for all. Just an awesome night! Had so much fun learning and playing.
     
  6. cboutilier

    cboutilier

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Your beloved ACDC is a great place to start. With Malcolm playing 5 chords, Angus's solos and/or the bass lines defining the feel of a passage.

    I spent a lot of time listening to Dickie Betts, BB King, Eric Clapton, and Peter Green when I was trying to break out of strictly minor licks in my blues-rock.

    I've found the bigger challenge for me, was breaking from 100% major on country stuff and learning to mix the minor in over major chords. Don Rich and Brad Paisley were where I started with that.
     
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  7. Kerry Brown

    Kerry Brown Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Location:
    Squamish, BC
    It took me many years to figure this out. All that time spent learning barre chords I was going to play them damn it. Many years ago I started showing up at a local blues jam. There were only a few people there so you could play all night if you wanted. After the first set the guy that ran it came over to me and told me to turn down a bit and I didn't need to play full chords all the time. He was a bit of a cranky old bastard but he was a really good player so I took his advice and started just strumming a few strings while playing barre chords. It sounded way better. After a few weeks he invited me over to his house and showed me all sorts of 2, 3 , and 4 note voicings. He was a cranky old bastard but he taught me a lot about the blues.
     
  8. player99

    player99 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2019
    Location:
    Ontario
    You got the "Cranky Old Bastard Blues".
     
  9. Paul M

    Paul M

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Location:
    Brantford
    One of the best guitar lessons I ever had focused on learning any V7 chord with any note on top, which may be a chord tone, or an available upper extension. Or the opposite idea. Play at the 7th fret, (for example), play any and all V7 chords with a B natural on top.

    The other trick I tried to maintain was to play voicings where the high note followed the melody. Not chord-melody playing like Joe Pass, (because who, besides Joe, can play like that), but simple comping that follows the flow of the melody.

    Both of the above tricks work best with 3 or 4 note voicings, often leaving out the root. Bass players and the piano players left hand need something to do.
     
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  10. Lola

    Lola

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    pickering ontario
    I was thinking that when this COVID stuff is over I should get a looper pedal. This would help me I think. Not only to practice this pentatonic stuff with but learning more complicated licks.

    Can anybody recommend a half decent one. I don’t want to blow the budget on one because I am still in the midst of saving for my PRS S2. Everyday is a little closer.
     
  11. Kerry Brown

    Kerry Brown Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Location:
    Squamish, BC
    I use
    I use a Boss RC-3 that I picked up used for $125.
     
  12. Lola

    Lola

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    pickering ontario
    I was just jamming last night and I discovered you can play both major and minor pentatonic over Sweet Home Alabama. I didn’t know this. It was fairly easy to be able jam over both. I am just having trouble remembering all the scale shapes and combining them. If anything, that’s what will slow my progress down. It’s a lot for me to remember. I have to engage in this daily.
     
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  13. Eric Reesor

    Eric Reesor

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Location:
    Victoria BC
    My favourite example of using two contrasting tonalities at the same time is this little ditty that is very Spanish in character. It is the second piece in this youtube vid after the Preambulo called Oliveras, by Federico Moreno Torroba. It uses snippets of bitonality very effectively. To most ears it is really jarring to hear the dissonance created by playing in two different keys at the same time. But in my ears it beautifully describes the dissonance of daily life in human interactions. Torroba was a Zarzuela composer and he also composed wonderfully for film scores. His music will stand the test of time because it is a snapshot of human emotions and can be incredibly evocative in the hands of good musicians.


    The ability to hear in one key and play in another at the same time is a great gift. If you really listen to some of the music created by Miles Davis you hear this happen on the guitar spontaneously with players like John Mclaughlin, not for everyone I must admit: but to make even written music sound spontaneous and fresh I find it really helps not limiting my mind to conventional twelve tonality at times. Drives my wife nuts though and is a good way to keep the cats out of my music space when I am studying!
     
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  14. Lola

    Lola

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    pickering ontario
    Eric do you meaning transposing on the spot? I am not good at this but am improving. My best friend is my ear.
     
  15. nbs2005

    nbs2005 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Location:
    Dundas, Ontario
    This is just a fantastic thread and a goldmine of information. Thank you all who have contributed!
     
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